It’s just files, how hard could it be 🤷
I fucking wish
“What’s a file anyways, more than a bunch of bytes in a specific order?”
Check out dbus and notify.
And then unpack your dracut initrd.That killed a Plan9 (and 9front) fan.
There is a kernel of truth to this.
I understood that reference!
24 years exclusively running it.
Short answer: magic.
Long answer: a stressful full week trying to get everything right, followed by a long, blissful period forgetting how hard it was to get it up and running like magic.
Those weeks were a lot more stressful, and longer than a week, when I used Slackware and started installing stuff that wasn’t packaged for Slackware. I would dread new software. It was the Unifi controller that finally put me over the edge: I wasn’t even willing to give it a shot. I ran the controller on my Kubuntu desktop for a few weeks until I switched the server to Debian.
It felt like a house of cards. Nudge one of those cards by, say, updating a library, and you could easily break something else.
“If you want to know how Linux works, ask a Slackware user,” is the old saying. It’s true…we had to know, because we didn’t have a choice not to know.
my experiece is just stuff getting fixed and breaking rsndomly tbh.
So many factors at play.
The number of packages installed, the use of externally unsupported repos, the distro you use, reliability of their packaging system, how much you deviated from the baseline customization, and probably more.
Keeping track of everything off what and how much you changed may prove difficult. But it helps taking notes of how you solved the more complicated issues.
With time you learn to live with the inevitability of something breaking. You update less often, and only when you really have to. Repairing stuff becomes less overwhelmeming with time.
After a dozen of those stressful weeks I decided to write down everything new I learn if I can.
Everything’s a file.
Linux: You’re a file.
Windows: No! You’re a file!
*Linux smiles maliciously*except that thing. …and the other thing. that thing used to be a file but it’s not anymore. that’s only a file if you use this specific shell. that one is a file system, but there’s no files in it. oh don’t touch that file, that’s deprecated. oh that’s only a partial file, you need to open this one too otherwise it breaks.
Lots of things are files. See Plan9.
20 years this year and I still am not sure how it is supposed to be pronounced (in english)
it’s pronounced
gifguy over here trying to start a war
yiff*Now I just wanna know whether
GNUisGuh-nooorJuh-nooorGee-en-yooI haven’t used Linux regularly since 2006, which either means I’m out of the loop or an ancient bearer of lost knowledge:
I think it’s “G’noo” like “G’day” or “G’night.”
The GNU project has a page on it:
It seems he got it correct without knowing.
G’noo be my distro of choice, m’lady
lmao
a newt?
Gnu like the animal
It’s
Gee-nyooWildebeest
the U is silent
linux
The linux is silent
not for linux users!
source: I use linux.
Line-yoox.
Gah Nuu plus Line-ucks
“As I’ve taken to calling it”
except it’s derived from Linus’s name, which in finnish is pronounced as Lee-noos, so technically it should be Lee-noox.
In reality tho? Nobody cares
I just say liinus. Or liinuksi.
It’s pronounced like Liminiux. Lominoliux is also acceptable.
actually, it’s lomi-lominux
Loon - icks
Loin-ughs
Lean-uggs
Lin-ix
So close the lunatic then.
That’s the thing, his pronounciation there is eerlie similar to what I’m used to spanish (where it is pronounced just as it is spelt) that my ol brain kind of does a short-circuit and can’t assimilate the fact that it’s just kind of the same thing in both languages and if it’s in the middle of a sentence I have to go back to speaking my crappy non-native english
Not sure if this helps, but in English (my native language), I would pronounce it with a short “i”, like in “sit”. You could also pronounce it with a Spanish “i” (same as Finnish “i” to my ears). I would not pronounce it with a long English “i” because the vowel length is too long and doesn’t sound right.
It always surprises me how much the pronunciation of Finnish and Dutch resemble each other.
LIH-nucks (rhymes with “tin bucks”).
It is pronounced like that but they don’t rhyme at all
/ˈlɪnuks/
I think it’s /ˈlɪn.əks/ It’s horritic tho, tbh
This gon be another gif or gif situation.
le necks
The more you know, the more you know that you don’t know a damn thing.
I don’t know shit about Linux. I just know it’s fast and not Microsoft.
🙋♂️: “How does Linux work?”
👨💻: “…does it?”
The more you know about computers the more you realize its just magic rocks, and that magic, rocks.
its all transistors man all transistors
When Linux is working, one does not tempt fate by asking why.
One does not ask how the Linux is working, one only asks if.
I took an operating system class in college that involved basicly creating a baby OS. Lot of fun.
Well. ACTUALLY, it’s very simple you see every time you spin up a new linux box a little piece of Linus Torvold’s soul get’s imprinted in the CPU registers and then that fragment handles everything from there.
“It’s called a shovel,” said the Senior Wrangler. “I’ve seen the gardeners use them. You stick the sharp end in the ground. Then it gets a bit technical.”
—Terry Pratchett: Reaper ManBut seriously - if you do want to see the inner workings, perform a Gentoo stage 2 to dip your toes in. LFS after if you’re feeling dangerous. Then things will start to come together. But maybe do it on a spare machine… You can/will break things and you will need a fallback to do research. Don’t bother if you don’t care to read manuals, it’s not easy and can be frustrating.
I’ve been working with Linux since 1.1.98, I think, 1.2.13 for sure. That’s probably 32 years.
I’ve built kernels for enterprise distribution as part of a build group. I’ve worked to secure our distribution. I’ve led the security response team.
I’ve never run gentoo.
You think I should ?
If you are happy with the distributions you use, there is no need to try Gentoo.
In my opinion, as a Gentoo user for the last 20 years, Gentoo is the most flexible distribution there is. Gentoo can be as stable as Debian or it can be as (or even more) cutting edge as Arch. Or it can be anything in between and you can even mix and match as you like.
The cost you pay for that flexibility is the compile time it takes to build the packages. And Gentoo is even providing you with prebuilt binaries for a very large amount of packages.
Not sure if you’d gain all that much with your level of experience. LFS might be a better starting point. However, after suggesting doing a stage 2 to a few that were eager to learn more (even though they’d been using it for a very long time), it was generally a positive experience. If you go through the guide I’m sure you’d be able to tell quickly whether it would be useful.
Honestly as a not-used-Gentoo person recklessly throwing around my opinion on the internet…
It sounds like either it can be “Really optimized and crazy performant if you know what you’re doing.”
Or “It’s a fun hobby because you think operating systems are fun.”
Personally it seems cool except I think I’d start to burn out fast if every package install means having to read compilation instructions and edit configs.
Maybe because my experience compiling stuff is always like “What’s your problem this time?! Okay where do I find that package version?!”
EDIT: I love all the educational, reassuring, and enthusiastic responses. This is what makes Linux cool. :D I should give Gentoo a try…
Package install doesn’t mean you have to read compilation instructions and edit configs. Usually you just install like in any other distro. (Except it takes a bit longer to finish.)
That’s actually pretty reassuring! I was under the impression it was a huge flex haha. I’m curious how much practical speed you gain from compiling everything to your specific architecture. 🤔
It depends. You also have to decide if you want to use LTO or PGO or similar techniques to further boost performance (but massively impacting compile time).
Generally Gentoo ‘feels’ smoother than other distributions. And I had an old netbook that used to be unable to play HD content on Ubuntu and the like, but HD content worked smoothly on Gentoo.
Nah, it’s not that bad. You don’t need to optimize the living hell out of it and they also have some ready-made binary packages. Plus you can also use flatpak for instance to make your life easier.
Sounds pretty rad actually if one is packing a halfway decent processor! :) Thanks for enlightening us!
You’re right, I’ve learned to love flatpaks for certain things. The sandboxing can be a little reassuring and I’ll definitely reach for it if I’m getting dependency-hell from a core package and just “Need it to work without spending a weekend on it.” :p
Flatpak is toxic to iso27002 and SLSA, though.
@MonkeMischief @corsicanguppy portage tree already conains all instructions and follows automaticly. You optionally may override options with use flags unlike binary distros where you only can use default configuration
Ah that’s really cool! Sounds a lot more approachable than I thought. I’ve always heard it talked about like a flex distro for after somebody graduates from “installed Arch, no-installer” academy. :p
(Another thing I need to try again. First time failed hahaha.)
I have somewhat similar experience (with far more recent kernels tho, 2.6 and newer) gentoo has some gentoo specific things, it won’t really teach you a lot when you have a certain level of knowledge, and how most parts interface with each other. It’s a fun exercise if you have time.
You should be at the point where you just want simply and easy. Because you have reached the point “I’m tired Boss. So tired.” When it comes to an OS.
So maybe Mint or a Fedora Atomic spin.
I’d do Atomic but it’s a bipolar source of truth, which violates iso27002.
Good with either enterprise or fedora, thanks!
I once tried Gentoo stage 1 because I felt bad ass and failed miserably. However that also taught me a lot.
Hahah. At least you learned some things. Took me a few goes after thinking I was slick having stage 2 down pat. Then tried some BSDs and was humbled again.
Heh, there was a guy on our local forums who daily drived FreeBSD 20 years ago. They probably still using it. 20 years later, I still don’t know any other people who daily drive a BSD.
I’ve been running OpenBSD since 2.8. I’ve only met one other BSD user in real life and they were baffled to why I’d run it as a workstation OS. Sometimes I am too.
That’s fair I think :)
Comparing to Linux BSD is quite niche, and I even met a guy who uses Linux other than me in real life was like in 2011 for the first time. No one knew what BSD was.
Personally I only meddled with NetBSD for really old PCs.
I guess I can count you as the first person I know who uses OpenBSD now.
Masochism?
probably
deleted by creator
I daily drive OpenBSD. I found it easier to set up than NetBSD which apparently is ass backwards as open is supposed to be harder. for the life of me I just couldn’t wrap my head around getting the amdgpu drivers working on NetBSD.
I also found OpenBSD slightly better supported for various hardware than FreeBSD. Wifi works better on it, these old ass logitech headphones I have work flawlessly on OpenBSD when on FreeBSD they just didn’t work at all and gave off horrible feedback or I couldn’t turn the mic off. Also found setting up a Debian VM much easier on OpenBSD than FreeBSD (still a chore though)
Also OpenBSD for whatever reason probably has the most solid and decently sized gaming community than the other ones.
It’s a great OS that just stays out of your way. really fun to tinker with. Just don’t expect to do EVERYTHING on it. for surfing, certain dev work, etc it’s great.
I see, I thought FreeBSD has the most users so I would guess a better hardware support but apparently not. I was only interested in NetBSD because of backwards hardware compatibility and that’s pretty much it, because some stuff has problems even with small Linux distros.
It’s quite interesting to see people who also game on BSD by the way. Rock on!
I assumed the same as you when I tried out the BSDs. I went with FreeBSD first because I assumed that was the better supported one. Wifi was absolutely horrible on it. connection would constantly drop, or was slow, etc. on OpenBSD i haven’t had those issues. Also had a lot of issues setting up a VM on FreeBSD and getting certain USB devices to work correctly. neither of those issues on OpenBSD.
By the way, I watched a video about OpenBSD and kinda intrigued to put it on my old Thinkpad. Well, at least I’ll consider if I can make it without a headache. I have a plan to make a really minimal (and maybe secure) writing machine. :)
i use freebsd on my desktop and server. it’s pretty good. linux emulation is also capable so everything just runs!
hardware compat isn’t as great tho. my laptop randomly stutters with freebsd so i use linux instead
I heard BSD is solid as a server. The person I know had to compile everything but that was many years ago. I would assume you have binary packages as well nowadays?
I never really used BSD and I only know NetBSD a little. I’m actually curious about a NetBSD server but I’m lazy even for my desktop. And I was considering switching my Debian server to Alpine but I haven’t touched that server since 2019 aside from occasional updates, so even that’s a big step for me. I guess the more realistic standpoint is I will install Alpine when my netbook finally dies and have to replace it with another hardware. :)
yes there are binary packages available, so i just use ‘pkg install …’ like ‘apt-get install’. NetBSD also has binary packages and is pretty good. it’s all fun to use, but tbh i don’t think there’s many reasons to move away from a linux system because there’s not many clear advantages
Well, to be fair I don’t really have time to learn whole another system, even though there are many similarities. I’m just interested, as a hobby. :)
It’s good to know they have package managers like Linux though.
honestly just installing Gentoo is a great way to learn various aspects of linux. It’s a process, a lengthy one, but if you manage to install it successfully you can pretty much install any distro or BSD with absolute ease and not even think about it.
Totally agree. I installed Gentoo a couple times before (last time maybe 10 years ago though, all were stage3). I tried stage1 once and my Linux knowledge was not even good that time, so there is that. :)
Even installing it will teach you a lot of things.
Proud Gentoo user for the past 12ish years and this is the first I’ve heard of “stage 1” and “stage 2”. This explains the number for stage 3 I guess lol. Even with stage 3, and having dealt with gentoo (still my daily driver to date), I think I’ve learned more than I would have with many other distros.
Tried LFS first. Stayed with Gentoo after for the maintainability.
This and some certification guide for sles or rhel (their documentation in general is very good and thorough).
What I tell people: “When you get used to using an operating system that respects your rights, you don’t wanna go back.”
I’ve been on Arch full time for 6 years, I still get frustrated, sometimes I get stumped, but I NEVER want to go back to windows
How about an operating system that respects your time?
Cause Linux aint that if I have to sift through dozens of badly documented online manuals just to get something small working the way it should.
Windows is much better in that regard.
So are you immediately trying to pull the conversation away from ethics, because you know Microsoft has no leg to stand on in this regard? Who cares that the founder of MS is heavily implicated in the Epstein files if you (supposedly) save a little time, right? Or I guess it doesn’t matter that that same company is actively providing surveillance tech support to Israel in their genocide of Palestine? That they censor their employees emails from speaking about the very atrocity they’re complicit in? Or that the same surveillance infrastructure is being used at home in service of an authoritarian regime?
That’s not even getting into all the gritty details of all the little annoyances and rights abuses - which have been accurately predicted by free software advocates for decades now - that inevitably stem from proprietary tech companies like Microslop, which collectively we are now calling enshittification.
But even ignoring the massive pile of shits about Microsoft and Windows to address your argument in a vacuum, does Windows respect your time? Really? Does Windows respect your time when it forces you to go online and sign up for an online account, and login to that account to enable their at-home spyware, just to install their operating system? Does it respect your time when you have to go through a potentially hours-long painful update procedure on a fresh install? How about when the OS runs awfully sluggish even on great hardware? Does MS respect your time when you have to go out of your way to research and install multiple tools and scripts to try in vain to gut all the spyware, AI garbage, adware, and bloat, and run 3rd party system tools to suppress other elements of the OS just to make the damn thing halfway usable and have the illusion of being something that can be trusted?
Even on your own little point, where is this superior documentation you speak of? Because every time I’ve run into a problem on Windows, their support pages have only ever given me the most generic troubleshooting answers that have been completely unhelpful. Please show me documentation that comes even close to the thoroughness and quality of the Arch Wiki.
Assuming any of what you said is even in good faith, and that you’re not just a shill or simp, here’s what you need to consider: Windows is something that most people have been using all their lives. When you’ve been operating something that long, it feels easier. You’re more able to ignore the pain points because habits are already deeply settled, and you know your way around. That’s the biggest reason Linux feels like such a hassle at first - learning new things takes time, and is always frustrating. I know this experientially because at one time I struggled to use Linux systems too, but now I have the reverse problem. I’ve been using Linux long enough, and Windows has devolved and changed enough, that on the rare occasion I try to use that piece of shitware, it is the most frustrating thing in the world. Windows 7 was something I was used to. But Windows 10 and 11 are new and unfamiliar to me, and consequently feel damn near unusably bad.
Does Linux have things it needs to improve? Of course, but at least it’s something worth improving. You’re trying to compare imperfect, yet a remarkable collection of software, to something that is literally just malware at this point. If anything, virus scanners should be adding Windows to their definitions lists.
Good for you, stay where you are
As someone who uses Linux every day for work, I don’t know how to fix shit. I’m not paid to troubleshoot
