I was worried enough about buying a used car in five years, thanks. Nov I have to worry about having the shit infotainment systems that were disappearing on top of having to pay a subscription to release my parking breaks??
Rent seeking behavior. They want subscription revenue instead of wanting to deliver what consumers want.
For the most part, it’s believed that carmakers are doing way with Android Auto support simply as a way to expand their control over user data. Because Android Auto utilizes your phone’s connection, all of the data that runs through it goes straight to Android and the phone manufacturer. So, by utilizing built-in systems, the car manufacturers would indeed be able to collect more data about how you use the systems in place, while also possibly getting more money out of you through subscriptions.
You are unfortunately correct.
And then carmakers will cry that Chinese cars are reading over the market.
It’s not free you know.
Yes, the software doesn’t cost anything but the chipset is supplied by a single manufacturer Qualcomm and costs a bomb.
You can’t run it on a Mediatek or a Rokchip or whatever?
There’s more than just Qualcomm in the ARM market.
Also, so what? Do you think the cars are currently sold at a loss? They profit on each car sold, and that includes the infotainment.
That’s such an obvious deflection, though. My last car was a GM vehicle, with built-in OnStar right there in the box behind the rearview mirror. Built into the price I paid was hardware I didn’t want, didn’t pay a subscription for, yet was collecting my driving data and selling it.
Building a functionally useful infotainment system to replace Android Auto, with all of the bells and whistles needed to complete, is going to cost them the same or more. The difference is the rent seeking behavior, the demand for subscriptions, and getting more opportunities to spy on their customers for profit.
Back to the days of rip out the head unit and stick one in that does have the features you want?
I imagine they’ll try to make this increasingly difficult; maybe even impossible.
It already is for a lot of modern cars. Especially EVs. I imagine they are so tied into the functionality of the car that it makes the vehicle impossible to drive without the OEM headunit.
Couldn’t a savvy user just find an exploitable firmware revision, never connect the vehicle to the internet, and install aftermarket software or hardware to bypass the authentication checks? It would be more of a pain in the ass than the previous drop in system, but I’d imagine it’s possible.
Depends on how heavily things are locked down, and how much money this tech-savvy person is willing to risk on a bricked automobile.
If the auto industry successfully locks 99.9% of their buyers into their walled garden by making it such a pain in the ass to bypass it, they’ve already won.
I’m doing my part by living car-free, never liked them. Unfortunately that’s not an option for everyone.
The vehicle comes from the factory connected to the internet.
You’d have to find the exploit before they do, and it would be hard to replicate because once they find out, the only cars vulnerable to your exploit are ones manufactured before the patch who have been disconnected from the internet (which is like 2 cars).
It’s theoretically possible but very hard to replicate. And on top of that theres always the risk of the car manufacturer voiding the warranty on your $50k vehicle and/or cozying up to your insurance company and convincing them any damage is a result of you preventing their systems from running as intended.
It’s a messy high risk low reward game to play. Better option is to just buy a different car if you can.
Right, but that requires somebody to find and document exploitable firmware revisions, create and distribute hardware/software to exploit them, develop the aftermarket software/hardware, and all that potentially separately for each car model. And then that just becomes a war with the manufacturers, who might try to update their firmware more aggressively, lock things down more, and threaten/sue people working on such things.
I doubt it will be completely impossible - we’d just be returning to a situation similar to game consoles and modchips - any aftermarket parts need to lie to the “authentication” checks in place first.
I would expect that certain aftermarket groups would specialize based on popular models, maybe even prioritizing models designed to be interoperable with others design and parts wise (Subaru and perhaps Toyota comes to mind).
If it doesn’t affect emissions those mod chips will not violate your warrantee - magnuson-moss was writen decades ago to protect replacing your factory radio. There are a number of other laws around third party access to car diagnostics.
I just had a little magnetic clip for my air vent where I could attach my phone and put up a map.
I’d sooner go back to doing that than use a “Gemini-based AI assistant” in my fucking car.
I quite literally just bought one of those clips recently because I am done with Android Auto, and Google in general as much as I can be.
That’s another reason the manufacturers are increasingly locking vehicle features behind the touchscreen. If you buy a 3rd party replacement, you can’t control the AC.
Are you talking about music/NAV systems or CEOs?
Car mechanics are basically going to need to become hackers.
99% of them won’t, but yeah, a couple will figure out how to ‘unlock’ your car, like a smartphone, install a custom OS on it.
I’d rip out the touch screen SO fast
And then lose control of numerous functions of your car.
It’s simply not an option in modern cars.That’s the “why I can’t do it” part.
But if it was possible to get knobs and buttons for everything and a small-ish screen only for info, I’d take that. I’d pay for that. Touch screens are dangerous. I’d at most be comfortable to swipe on the screen to show different infos like GPS, temperature/airflow, music/radio. Otherwise I want buttons and knobs with little lights.
I 100% understand what you mean. I just bought a VW ID.4, and IMO they have a good balance. Everything needed for normal driving is handled with buttons, and although some are touch, they do have haptic feedback, and it works OK IMO.
I was looking at the Skoda Enyaq, because it has traditional buttons and more things operated through them.
But it cost about €5000 extra for the same features as is in our fully equipped ID.4 when used and 4 years old. But now I’m happy we chose the ID.4 instead of an Enyaq with fewer features. Because the ID.4 works way better than I expected.
It’s crazy and previously absolutely unheard of that the Skoda version of a similar car to a genuine VW is more expensive.Oh wow, it IS odd that Skoda would be more expensive and €5k is a lot! Very odd indeed.
I’m glad you found a car you like!
And replace it with what? You can’t just hot glue knobs on the center console and expect them to work.
That’s the “why I can’t do it” part.
But if it was possible to get knobs and buttons for everything and a small-ish screen only for info, I’d take that. I’d pay for that. Touch screens are dangerous. I’d at most be comfortable to swipe on the screen to show different infos like GPS, temperature/airflow, music/radio. Otherwise I want buttons and knobs with little lights.
No need to do that. You could get a Slate and put in what you want.
Good luck. Everything is integrated now with nonstandard form factors. The work and cost to do my 2020 transit is ridiculous. Phone mount and Bluetooth it is.
I am always surprised I don’t hear more discussion about Automotive Grade Linux.
Something something year of the Linux car
You heard it on Lemmy first!
Because it’s corporate controlled embedded Linux, you aren’t guaranteed any freedom or control. Hell you aren’t even guaranteed access to a debug menu. Technically a car manufacturer could make a open a free car running embedded Linux that does give you freedom but the chances are absurdly low.
TiVoization
Man, that sounds INCREDIBLE!!! Never heard of this! Linux on my pc, my laptop, my phone, and now my CAR! 🤣
That’s what most? cars used for a long time (there is also GENIVI)
Many manufacturers are switching to Android as the base OS so they can just hire app developers rather than developers that know other UI toolkits
Gonna be honest. Its a multi thousand kilo death machine. I’m going to leave it to professionals to fuck with. I’m going to force as much of the liability on others as I can.
oh look another problem I’m too poor to have
Yes, blame automotive business that you arent able to aquire a new car free, that falls in line with todays snowflake mentality.
- nowhere in their comment are they saying they blame automakers by specifically
- nowhere in their comment are they saying they should get cars for free
Stop getting so offended, snowflake.
Removed by mod
day old outrage account
We found the biggest moron on the internet.
Bait used to be believable
What a piece of human detritus you are. Have a great day!
Are you a billionaire or are you lazy?
Offended by a simple comment but calls that person a snowflake. Prime loser mentality 👍 good work, snowflake.
Got off mah lawn you damn kids!
Rock and roll is too loud and oatmeal is too spicy!
The cars (in EU) used to be under 20.000€ ~6 years ago. Yes, I understand inflation exists.
So manufacturers can bill you monthly for the same features…
Why I like Android Auto:
- I can plan my route on my phone at home and see the map on the big screen instead the little phone ui, or worse putting in the adress manually with the keyboard wheel in Korean instead of copy and pasting it from the Element chat
- I already have all my music on my phone, I don’t want to copy and organize it again for hours in my car
- I already have integration with many apps on my phone, I don’t want to set everything up again on the car, especially I can’t copy and paste my long ass passwords from my KeePassXC into the car and need to painstakingly put in every password with their clunky keyboard, if they even have a keyboard.
I could go on forever. But as long as I can connect bluetooth and set up my phone somewhere so I can see the map while driving I’ll be OK. The worst part, at work what I do is car infotainment system software, but it never has any of the features I would want from a car.
Plus if I rent a car that also has Android Auto I only have to pair it and all my stuff is there.
In the car manufacturers mind, these are all uncommon issues because you should be using cloud services for everything.
Removing smartphone integration from its vehicles opens the door for GM to grow its in-vehicle subscription revenue. Yep 💩
I’ll happily celebrate whatever loss hits Google.
but this is so shitty I prefer Google
Honestly, I think consumers allowing manufacturers to start integrating screens into cars was a mistake.
Knobs and dials are way easier to nevigate blind (whilst focusing on the road like we’re meant to), and none of that stops you plugging in your own third party device for other features, or replacing the headboard yourself.
Giant tablets with complex menus are dangerous to drivers, and only serve to milk the consumer for things they already had access to in their car as standard not 10 years ago.
Yes. It needs heavy regulation, physical buttons is all the driver should have access to.
We also need to ban subscription services in vehicles.
Consumers cannot be trusted to spend responsibly and look out for their best interests.
The consumers did not allow anything. This is the crap they were eventually forced to buy due to lack of any other options. Electro-mechanical-chemical vehicle with a delco radio should be enough. We adopt new tech because it exists, not because we should.
The bigger and more intrusive screens have gotten, the more sales of new cars have flagged. People are sick of them, and lawmakers are starting to catch up on regulating physical controls back into vehicles.
The last time I bought a car one of my stipulations was a car no newer than 2016 because that was the last year that RAV4s had the small screens in the middle of the dashboard instead of mounted practically on the windshield, and the guy at the dealership that I talked to said that practically everybody who came in looking to buy a car had similar sentiments. People generally hate the big, intrusive screens, it’s just that car makers aren’t making any other options and then claim that that’s what people want.
Money.
There I wrote the whole article in one word.
Because GM sucks.
People aren’t asking for much. People just want their phone navigation and music controls displayed onto the infotainment. Won’t consider any car that cannot afford me this tiny bit of convenience for the sake of nickel and diming me.
And if every car manufacturer starts forcing me to adopt their own stupid software I’ll just buy a fucking phone holder.
And GM has shitty reliability anyways.
Its not just GM, but their are certainly a good example of Enshitification.
I’m perfectly happy with my 2012 car + magnetic phone holder
GM are saying that their customers want a more seamless integration. Shareholders are slavering at the idea of owners collared to their subscription system. Buyers need to stop buying cars with stupid subscriptions. My 2nd hand BMW has a heated steering wheel that requires an annual fee to use. Nope, heated gloves are the solution!
I imagine you could wire your own mechanical switch to that steering wheel. Fuck them for doing that though.
As a BMW tech, what car has a subscription for the heated wheel?
I’m surprised you didn’t hear about that, because it was a huge controversy. it was limited to a few countries though (or maybe only the UK?)
I heard of the heated seat subscription, just not the heated wheel option. We don’t have that in Canada.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62142208
https://bimmerlife.com/2022/07/18/dont-panic-bmws-subscription-model-explained/
I can’t find a list of models, but they still use the same system for other subscriptions
2 series hybrid. UK variant
Ah, UK. Makes sense.
I won’t buy a car without CarPlay.
My current car has it and I love it. So I imagine Android users feel the same way.
If there is truly no option, then my phone is getting the window/airvent mount option.
I’ll never subscribe to their bs.
My car is from the 2010s.
I bought a GPS looking screen for $40 that has android auto and carplay. I already have Bluetooth added onto the radio for audio streaming.
Works perfectly for GPS off of my phone and as a media controller.
Only thing I’m missing is steering wheel controls.
I’m in a country where stuff in the car is not regulated as much as the US.
One of my ride share drivers had basically a 13” android tablet instead of the stock radio in the car 😂
It was all hooked up to the car to act as a legit part of the car.
Yeah this is the kind of shit I was looking forward to when I got into driving in the 2000s. But then car manufacturers started doing thier own non standard radios.
Then the car mod communities made kits to for a dual bay fit.
Then the corpos made radios required to service the car…
No regulations to protect the consumers let them do what they want.
The car part of the car should be completely independent of the entertainment part of the car. Fuckers.
The line can get blurry when you talk about EVs but protections should still be possible.
The third parties would win sueing car makers for requiring the radio for diagnostics. anti-monopoly and warranty laws protect moding you car.
Yeah I gave up on radio customization when I got a car that didn’t have a dual bin and didn’t keep up. Looking at newer cars and barely anything can be swapped/upgraded it seems.
In the us laws from the 1970’s protect third party radios.
This is the way.
Could it be money?
It’s money, isn’t it?!
So, by utilizing built-in systems, the car manufacturers would indeed be able to collect more data about how you use the systems in place, while also possibly getting more money out of you through subscriptions.
It’s not money. The executives of these companies revealed the reason they are doing this is because they believe they can provide a better end user experience. They wouldn’t lie would they?
Nooooooo that’s totally unlikely. It’s probably just for our best!
2015 cars came with bluetooth support for hands free calling using your phone. This was great.
After that, it was replaced with carplay or android auto as the only means to get hands free calling. Stupid…stupid.
Plus, last 2 new cars i bought, i had to take the interior roof apart so i could access the built in cellular antennae wire and remove that spyware P.O.S. And by the way, car works fine without it.
They didn’t really replace it though. Pretty much every modern car sold today has Bluetooth. You don’t have to use android auto.
Yeah, I finally got a car with Android Auto earlier this year and was excited to get it. I thought it would basically let me mirror my phone on the car touchscreen, but instead, it only uses specific apps for things. I hate it. I just use Bluetooth for phone or with Revanced for audio and I park my phone in the cupholder for nav. Works better.
On most cars, it’s probably easier to unplug it on the head unit side. They’re generally designed to be accessed for repair
I would be shocked if there wasn’t a single fuse just for that antenna.
I think it’s common for the antennas to contain both GPS and LTE. I think the fuse would power the whole fin?
On the head unit side, they’re generally separate cables
Correct the head mefia unit has the cellular plug. But to get to it, id have to remove the whole dashboard. The roof was easier
I still use that Bluetooth everyday in my Mitsubishi Outlander I don’t need more than this… I also installed some magnet mount for the phone case.
The only problem is that since December 2024 android release on Pixels it stopped connecting “media audio” automatically due to some timing issue or something. So I have to manually toggle that button on my phone since that day… (Google Pixel) And now Samsung seems to have the same issue since they started updating to newer android versions.
Google is not focusing on fixing this and just focusing on Android auto instead. But it only impacts some Japanese makes. I think some Mazda also have the issue.
I have a Samsung and I’ve had two of them this year actually three of them this year one fold three, one fold six, one s24 ultra and one pixel 9 and none of them have had this issue that you mentioned.
Right. And which Mitsubishi model and year do you have?
I don’t have a mitsubishi, you didn’t mention Mitsubishi in your comments. You mentioned some Japanese cars. I had a quest which I recently traded in and I still own a 2014 tacoma. Both of which are Japanese vehicles
Fair enough. But that’s why I mentioned “some” and not “all”. I’ve never heard about a Toyota impacted by this issue.
Mitsubishi are definitely impacted. Some Mazda too according to some people posting. But I’ve read less posts about Mazda. They must be using some similar Bluetooth receivers in the infotainment system.
This is possibly the first post when this issue originated but then in January 2025 they improved it with a workaround that works till today, but before connection was always automatic without any workaround.
Anyway. Every single time you start the engine you need to go to Bluetooth settings on the phone toggle “media audio” (that failed to connect automatically) one or two times and then it connects and you can enjoy BT normally. A pain in the ass especially for 10 minute trips.
Toyota didn’t have Android Auto for many years after 2015
Toyota also had Bluetooth before then as well in fact many cars had Bluetooth before then. I had two 2014 vehicles including one Tacoma which I still have that is Bluetooth but not Android auto. I will say having Android auto is nice but it is limited as well. My new 2024 RAV4 has Android auto wireless and it’s fantastic.
2017 Toyota. Android auto was optional. We opted not to pay for it
My 2018 Camry doesn’t interestingly enough
