Honestly, I’ve only ever had problems with Wayland so far. So many times when I look up the issue tracker for a software I’m having issues with, the solution is always “switch to a DE that uses Xorg.”
I get that it’s not a mature software yet, but neither should people be pushing to use it until it is.
Not here. This is not linux desktop share where every actor is an independent agent and all options are viable. Xorg is developed by the same people doing Wayland, and they decided Xorg is dead and will only receive security updates. I agree that Wayland compatibility is still not fully mature. But unfortunately for all those devs the upgrade window is moving fast and eventually their software will be left behind unless they change to Wayland. At this point Xorg is not even the default anymore.
Totally, nothing in Linux land ever truly dies. Someone, somewhere will surely fork it once it is never updated anymore. But I wouldn’t want to be that person either.
Unfortunately there’s no possible way to get screensavers working under wayland, which is what’s holding me back (also screensharing over Discord, but that’s not wayland’s fault)
^ fixes discord with an even better client, or you can use the many versions of discord that use the native system electron, which will all fix screensharing too.
“Here, switch to this software! Except it doesn’t support half of the features of the old one and it never will. Why? Uhhhh idk security or something. What was that? Will we add a way to securely allow these things? Lol no”
Global keyboard shortcuts, copy-paste, window position save/restore, screen recording, probably a few others I’m forgetting. I know some compositors implement these, but they aren’t part of the Wayland standard so it’s a bit hit-or-miss afaik.
^ global shortcuts was moved to portals (as it should be, portals are a much more sane way of handling this) but is in pretty much all compositors (except wlroots, but that’s also being worked on and not in won’tfix)
I don’t know what you’re talking about with copy-paste, that has worked for a millenia
Literally none of these things are as described won’tfix for security reasons. Also, wayland is a core set of protocols, you’re meant to use the ext block for things that aren’t essential for basic functioning (such as screenshotting), that doesn’t mean they don’t work or aren’t implemented properly, they’re done separately because they AREN’T core to functioning, there are certain compositors that don’t want the ability to take screenshots, for example.
None of those were actually true, can you list an actual example?
Yeah I really don’t get what people are talking about, I’ve been using wayland basically exclusively since 2022 and I haven’t had any difficult to fix problems. For screensharing in the few things that don’t support the portal I just use OBS’ virtual webcam and everything else has just worked perfectly, or at least with way less issues than I ever had with X
that’s not true either, nobody has bothered to port them but there’s nothing stopping you, this is also not a closed wontfix for security reasons thing at all.
all you’d need to do is use layer-shell, it really wouldn’t be difficult at all, but nobody cares.
Honestly, I’ve only ever had problems with Wayland so far. So many times when I look up the issue tracker for a software I’m having issues with, the solution is always “switch to a DE that uses Xorg.”
I get that it’s not a mature software yet, but neither should people be pushing to use it until it is.
That’s called a paradox, it’ll never be mature software if people don’t move to it so edge cases can be found and fixed.
Not here. This is not linux desktop share where every actor is an independent agent and all options are viable. Xorg is developed by the same people doing Wayland, and they decided Xorg is dead and will only receive security updates. I agree that Wayland compatibility is still not fully mature. But unfortunately for all those devs the upgrade window is moving fast and eventually their software will be left behind unless they change to Wayland. At this point Xorg is not even the default anymore.
I fully expect people to keep using a broken Xorg, not move into wayland, and not fork and keep it updated.
But the devs are free to do whatever they want. No opinions there. I wouldn’t want to maintain Xorg either.
Totally, nothing in Linux land ever truly dies. Someone, somewhere will surely fork it once it is never updated anymore. But I wouldn’t want to be that person either.
If somebody was willing to do this, xorg would still be maintained.
xorg is actually legitimately so terrible to work on that nobody is interested in doing this who actually knows how xorg works.
Unfortunately there’s no possible way to get screensavers working under wayland, which is what’s holding me back (also screensharing over Discord, but that’s not wayland’s fault)
https://github.com/Vencord/Vesktop
^ fixes discord with an even better client, or you can use the many versions of discord that use the native system electron, which will all fix screensharing too.
https://sr.ht/~mstoeckl/wscreensaver/
^ screensavers
“Here, switch to this software! Except it doesn’t support half of the features of the old one and it never will. Why? Uhhhh idk security or something. What was that? Will we add a way to securely allow these things? Lol no”
What features are you talking about?
People say this all the time but can never give any actual examples.
Global keyboard shortcuts, copy-paste, window position save/restore, screen recording, probably a few others I’m forgetting. I know some compositors implement these, but they aren’t part of the Wayland standard so it’s a bit hit-or-miss afaik.
https://github.com/flatpak/xdg-desktop-portal/issues/624
^ global shortcuts was moved to portals (as it should be, portals are a much more sane way of handling this) but is in pretty much all compositors (except wlroots, but that’s also being worked on and not in won’tfix)
I don’t know what you’re talking about with copy-paste, that has worked for a millenia
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/264
^ window positioning (although still being worked on, definitely not in the category of won’tfix)
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/merge_requests/124
^ screencopy (screen recording)
Literally none of these things are as described won’tfix for security reasons. Also, wayland is a core set of protocols, you’re meant to use the ext block for things that aren’t essential for basic functioning (such as screenshotting), that doesn’t mean they don’t work or aren’t implemented properly, they’re done separately because they AREN’T core to functioning, there are certain compositors that don’t want the ability to take screenshots, for example.
None of those were actually true, can you list an actual example?
Seems like FUD to me.
Yeah I really don’t get what people are talking about, I’ve been using wayland basically exclusively since 2022 and I haven’t had any difficult to fix problems. For screensharing in the few things that don’t support the portal I just use OBS’ virtual webcam and everything else has just worked perfectly, or at least with way less issues than I ever had with X
Screensavers! I know they’re technically pointless in the modern era but dammit they make me happy
that’s not true either, nobody has bothered to port them but there’s nothing stopping you, this is also not a closed wontfix for security reasons thing at all.
all you’d need to do is use layer-shell, it really wouldn’t be difficult at all, but nobody cares.
edit: nvm it exists already https://sr.ht/~mstoeckl/wscreensaver/
There really isn’t even one thing is there?
Aside from sway, I’m trying to think of a DE that doesn’t support Xorg.
Hyprland? Also cosmic technically
Hyprland is not a DE
Neither is sway